#167:

Matt Ellis, CEO at Measurabl — ESG Software for Real Estate. $170M+ Raised. $2T of Value. 17B Square Feet. Selling Data. FTSE Partnership. Transparency Matters.

Podcast Introduction

Chris Wedding:

My guest today is Matt Ellis, CEO of Measurable. Measurable is the ESG platform built specifically for real estate to measure, manage, disclose and act on ESG data. Their 200 plus employees serve clients representing 17 billion square feet of real estate and $2 trillion of value in those buildings across 93 countries. Matt is the former Director of sustainability solutions at CBRE, a Fortune 500 company and global leader in commercial real estate services and investments with around 3 billion square feet under management. His new book is From Green to ESG: How Data-Driven Transparency Changed Real Estate for Good. In this episode, we talked about why his private equity asset manager and REIT customers use his software.

Howie prices his products, both software and data. His data partnership with the FTSE Index, which is moving billions of dollars into green real estate. The pains over 10 years of customer price discovery, why self-advocacy matters, how he balances strategic and VC investors, future consolidation which he predicts in this industry, and much more. Hope you enjoyed, and please give Matt and Measurable a shout-out on LinkedIn, Slack, or Twitter by sharing this podcast with your people. Thanks.

Podcast Interview

Chris Wedding:

Matt Ellis, CEO of Measurable. Welcome to the podcast.

Matt Ellis:

Thank you, Chris. Good to be here.

Chris Wedding:

Well, you may not know this, but this conversation is a long time coming. As we joked before pressing record, my PhD many years ago was lovingly criticizing the LEED Green Building rating program for, you know, being directionally correct but not perfectly correct in measuring the environmental benefits of green-certified buildings. You all have taken it, thankfully, the next many steps ahead to be more accurate in that process. I wonder if we could start with this—maybe clarification for some of the market, which thinks of you all as mostly software. But you have another line of business, which to me was intriguing to learn about, and I’m sure some listeners would like to hear it as well.

Matt Ellis:

Yeah, that's right. Our origin, Chris, as you mentioned correctly, is in software, where we help real estate organizations measure, manage, report, and ultimately act on sustainability. We had in our vision since inception the idea that the real estate community was not just real estate owners, it was occupiers, it was lenders, it was insurers, it was stock exchanges that were building green indices. All of these stakeholders are also part of the real estate community, and we wanted to serve them as well. And so, we built a data business. That is a labor of love that leverages our DNA and software and our enormous data set—our world-leading data set—to provide insights on sustainability.

Chris Wedding:

These other stakeholders—and you mentioned earlier this partnership using this data side of your business, this partnership with FTSE—maybe say more about what that looks like, the kind of impact you're having there.

Matt Ellis:

Yeah, that's so recently public, maybe I think just as mid-December 23rd, so roughly a month ago, it was made public that Measurable was selected among all global data providers to be the provider of green or sustainable metrics on real assets. And those metrics, that data, was then incorporated into the FTSE Russell Navy EPRA Green Real Estate Index, which is very cool. And so, that's actually a series of indices focused on different real estate allocations, with several billion dollars in investment tracking those different products. So it's a great honor to work there, and it's a prime example of our vision around applications of sustainability data, not just to owning and operating buildings, but to all the other activities around them.

Chris Wedding:

And for those listeners, including myself, who can't write fast enough, just mention that index again that uses FTSE Russell data.

Matt Ellis:

FTSE Russell EPRA NAREIT series of indices. So it is a bit of a mouthful, but if you just start with "Maybe Green Real Estate Index" and "FTSE," you'll get there.

Chris Wedding:

Perfect. All right, so listeners have heard in our intro—over $2 trillion of real estate value—that are utilizing your software across 17, 18 billion square feet or so, 93 countries. Pretty big numbers. But when you talk to new customers, whether they maybe know of you or not enough of you, what's the pitch, man? How do you get from "don't know you" to "sure, I'll try"?

Matt Ellis:

I think we want to address that at two levels. The first level is the business imperative, and then secondarily, Chris, it's the features, functionality, price, and quality—those types of things. Just making sure we rely on the first step, which is: there is a massive transformation underway in the economy towards more sustainable business models, full stop. And that disproportionately impacts the built environment, real estate, because it is such a large contributor in terms of environmental impact and social impact. So right there, we just want to make sure our prospective customers understand that, and we give them plenty of examples. Those examples include: you are likely now regulated to some degree around energy and carbon disclosure; you likely have investors expecting these metrics and forward progress; and most certainly, you would have occupiers and other stakeholders with expectations.

If any one or more of those three things affects you, we're aligned that you need to do something about sustainability. Then that gets to the second part: are you going to do that through hook, crook, manual effort, Excel files, or are you going to use modern technology? Typically, prospective customers say they want to use technology for that. The next question is: are you going to choose a platform? Or, you could choose the world's most widely adopted and validated platform for that. We then go down that decision tree and explain what has led us to be in that privileged position. Well, many things.:

One is a huge emphasis in our business on data collection and the underlying automation to access data of many types—utility data, project data, certification data, climate risk data, policies, procedures, qualitative data, and so on. We've invested very heavily there and have distinguishing, proprietary tools that our competitors don't possess. Another thing we have is amazing scale, which benefits our customers because we can deliver the most accurate benchmark. Big thing. I used to be involved in real estate transactions before I got into this world of sustainability and technology. In real estate, we're relative animals—we're very interested in a building relative to a comparable building. The same holds true for sustainability. We want to know that concept and document that.

Now, if I have a data set that's bigger than anyone else's and more granular, I can probably help you better than others. So we want to make sure they understand that. And thirdly, scale also provides a view into the market. So Measurable serves private equity asset managers, private and publicly traded REITs, and everything in between—multifamily, single-family, data centers, hospitality, even major league baseball stadiums. That view into the global real estate marketplace allows us to develop bigger, better, faster, and innovate with our customers on their needs. Those are some of the things I want to make sure we point out. Makes sense?

Chris Wedding:

So we've heard about the data side, the software side. Maybe let's go one level deeper. How do you guys make money? What's that look like?

Matt Ellis:

Subscription. Both sides of the business—software and data—operate on subscription models. For the software, we provide a tier of service—good, better, best, if you will. You sign up for that for a period of typically two to three years, and you pay us based on volume, which is the number of buildings in our model that you load into that tier. We charge that annually upfront. It’s a very traditional SaaS model based on tier, volume, and term.

For the data side, it’s similar but with some nuances. There are two ratchets: one is the number of metrics you consume—measurable currently offers energy intensity, carbon intensity, regulatory exposure, climate risk, and certification status—and we can do that for any building worldwide, with very few exceptions. If you want to purchase one or more of those metrics, it changes your cost structure. The second is based on the number of assets you run through our API or UI for those metrics. Again, you subscribe and pay upfront annually.

Chris Wedding:

Did you ever consider other business models? Maybe pick a couple and explain why?

Matt Ellis:

Oh my goodness, that’s a whole story. Price discovery, value alignment—those are experiences. I’d say value discovery and price discovery are a close second to product iteration and landing the right features and formula. For example, we built a complicated model to ramp pricing by square footage, which looked like an elongated S curve. Very small owners paid modest fees, but as you move into larger institutional tiers, the fees increase—sometimes dramatically. But then, for the largest owners—say, half a billion square feet or a government entity—if we kept on that line, the price would explode into tens of millions annually. We had to taper that. A data scientist built a model for this, with a complex equation, because explaining that to customers was difficult.

So, we had to revisit our approach. Instead of explaining how costs scale with size, we reoriented around the perceived valuation for our customers—principally the number of assets they’re managing in our software.

Chris Wedding:

I’ve heard someone say, or maybe it’s a common phrase, "simple is better than clever." Which feels appropriate here. I recall early in my entrepreneurial journey, I made a proposal to an ideal client in real estate. They came back saying, "Well, the answer is no for all sorts of reasons," but they said, "Your proposal was complicated." I thought I was being clever. But, no—value-based pricing, keep it simple.

Matt Ellis:

Yeah, it’s easy to outsmart yourself—and your customer. I believe strongly in what you said: everything we do, we ruthlessly seek simplicity in. Whether it’s internal operations, backend IT, or our software experience, we keep asking: how do I make this bulletproof and easy?

Chris Wedding:

You must get plenty of questions, or I think our listeners are curious—how have you been able to raise so much capital from top-tier investors? Many recall your Series D last year—around $93 million. Can you share some flavor of that process, the challenges in raising capital through multiple rounds?

Matt Ellis:

We've raised roughly $175 million in equity over our lifespan, though I’ll say roughly because I don’t recall exactly. We also have debt facilities—tens of millions of access. It’s definitely not what we started with, which was about $10,000 from my bonus when I left CBRE. What changed? First, we proved the business model with good unit economics and customer references. Second, the market evolved. In 2013, ESG wasn't recognized in real estate; it was mainly about green. That was a color, not a financial framework. It needed to change.

We needed to get objective and focus on the material impacts of sustainability. Today, there’s a much larger investor pool, including venture funds dedicated to sustainability, like Energy Impact Partners. The progress is huge. Early on, seed funding came from Crosscutter, a VC out of LA, known for retail and SaaS, but not proptech or sustainability. Now, entire funds focus on sustainability in the built environment. The market’s maturity and our proof of concept have been key.

Chris Wedding:

Would you describe most of your investors as financial or strategic? And if strategic, have they been able to pull you into managing or owning parts of buildings?

Matt Ellis:

We’re a healthy blend. We have strategic investors like S&P Global, Salesforce, Constellation Technology Ventures, and others affiliated with major institutional LPs. And we have financial investors like Energy Impact Partners, Sway Ventures, and Camber Creek. All intentionally chosen. Our board includes only financial investors—no strategic investors by design. There’s no customer sitting on the board influencing the product roadmap. It’s purely market-driven, unbiased.

This keeps us disciplined and honest. Strategic investors often come from their own interests, but we develop relationships through the customer experience first. For example, companies like DivcoWest, which was a customer before investing, might participate later—so it’s often a relationship built on trust and mutual interest.

Chris Wedding:

Tell us about the hardest part—probably of growing Measurable into what it is today. This is your 11th year, roughly?

Matt Ellis:

This is the start of our 11th year. And, yes, there are the obvious challenges—making tough personnel decisions, evolving the business, and so forth. But the biggest challenges early on involved whether there was any "there, there." Years in the wilderness, with a very small set of early adopters who believed in what we were doing. Many actively dismissed it; it was a painful period.

You wonder if there’s any substance behind it. I took money from family and friends, and you don’t want to tell them you failed. Early years, growth was modest, the market wasn’t what it is today. Many moments I thought it wouldn’t work. But those challenges made us resilient. Today, those early struggles seem easier by comparison.

Chris Wedding:

Interesting how raising capital from loved ones can be extra motivation, right?

Matt Ellis:

Yeah. You don’t want to let them down. I thought, okay, I quit my job, I need to prove it was worth it—sold my car, worked from home. You don't want to pull a tulip in month three. So, I thought, if I get outside investors, that’s success. If I fail after that, at least I tried. Then we raised that, and I thought, well, if we reach a million in revenue, that’s success. But now, the goalposts moved. It’s no longer just about revenue; it’s about becoming synonymous with the transformation of real estate. I want the market to ask: "Is your building measurable?" or "Is your fund measurable?" I want our brand to support this change. That’s the new goal.

It’s a road, but so far, so good.

Chris Wedding:

Goalposts moving—definitely. What I heard, initially, it was about institutional investment, and now it’s about becoming a verb—like Google. "Just Google it," right? Is that what I’m hearing?

Matt Ellis:

Yeah, why not?

Chris Wedding:

Why not?

Matt Ellis:

To me, it’s not just about being a verb. The issue, especially in sustainability and ESG, is that our society and environment are negatively impacted by business decisions—pollution, consumption—and we couldn’t measure or internalize those costs. If we could change that, the world would be different. The key is: can you measure it? In real assets, absolutely. We’re the place to go for that. And what happens if you measure it?

You manage it. Better management leads to better outcomes.

Chris Wedding:

And I’ll put a link in the show notes, but give us the full name of the book.

Matt Ellis:

It’s From Green to ESG: How Data-Driven Transparency Changed Real Estate for Good. That’s the cover title, with a double entendre at the end.

Chris Wedding:

For sure. Already in the show notes.

Matt Ellis:

Okay, cool.

Chris Wedding:

Already gone toward my next question: What’s the five-year vision, Matt?

Matt Ellis:

Well, there are multiple ways to look at that. We could discuss product evolution, macro market evolution, or competitive landscape. All are fair. But if I had to pick a vision: in five years, I see a deeply penetrated, activated market—regulated, standardized, and integrated. Regulation is already happening in the EU, North America, Japan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, India, Australia. It’s a global shift. The cost of capital will change, lawsuits will increase, CEOs may lose their jobs if they fail to disclose accurately. This is already happening—like the Green Washington scandal at DWS.

The future of real estate regulation is clear and will fundamentally change how we value assets. Expect consolidation—companies acquiring adjacent services, integrating solutions. The industry is beginning that, and it will accelerate. In two years, you’ll see fewer, more sophisticated players solving these issues.

Regarding features and product evolution, we focus on delivering a "meter to market" experience. Many in our space focus on energy and carbon, but that’s only part of the picture. It’s about energy, carbon, climate risk, CapEx, transformation assets, policies, health and wellbeing, and everything else—tailored to each stakeholder: owners, lenders, LPs, fund managers, bondholders. Our goal is to provide an integrated, comprehensive platform that serves all these personas. It’s not feasible to have a niche data tool for owners that doesn’t connect to compliance, capital access, or portfolio management.

It’s about an all-encompassing, integrated product experience—delivering the right data, insights, and tools to each stakeholder.

Chris Wedding:

Excellent. Well, I can’t wait for Measurabl to become a verb. But first, a brief message from our sponsors. Just kidding—we don’t take sponsors. But did you know that 100,000+ CEOs belong to peer groups? If that makes you feel FOMO, and you’re a CEO or founder, then you’re in luck. I lead North America’s top peer community for growth-stage CEOs, founders, and investors in climate, tech, clean energy, and sustainability. Our members create billions in market value and reduce millions of tons of GHGs through our meetings, retreats, and coaching. They help each other boost revenue, impact, capital, clarity, confidence, work-life balance, and team effectiveness.

If this sounds interesting, go to entrepreneursforimpact.com and join the waiting list today. Now, let’s switch to the personal portion of the podcast.

So Matt, give us two or three pieces of advice for emerging professionals or career switchers into these sectors.

Matt Ellis:

Sure. Self-advocacy is key. I’ll tell my story: I started in brokerage, tenant rep, leasing, with a personal interest in sustainability. The first thing I did was ask my managing director, Mark Reed, to pay for my LEED accreditation. He did. I told him it would make me a better broker. Then I advocated for developing sustainable business practices and created a sustainability practice group. Later, I pushed for a new role—Vice President of Carbon—by proposing it to Mark and Steve Swardlow. The point is, each time I called out what I wanted, believed in it, justified it, and advocated for myself. If the opposing view is "I’ll do my work and wait to be noticed," that can happen, but I believe strongly in self-advocacy. If you want to go for it, say it out loud and don’t be embarrassed.

Chris Wedding:

That’s very true. It also reminds me of a phrase—agency. They want to hire and empower people who have agency: problem-solvers, solution-oriented, proactive.

Matt Ellis:

Yeah, totally.

Chris Wedding:

Give us a couple of habits or routines that keep you healthy, sane, and focused over these last 10 years.

Matt Ellis:

Back in college, finals week was intense. I played lacrosse through college, and during finals, my coach told us: the two hours you spend in the pool, focusing on yourself, are more productive than eight hours in the library. Sitting and stressing isn’t helpful. It’s essential to prioritize physical health—going to the gym, cross-country skiing, whatever. The common denominator among successful people is self-awareness about health. It’s easy to neglect it—laptops, phones, sleep. But neglecting physical health is a surefire way to undermine everything else.

Chris Wedding:

And saying it differently, if you think you don’t have time to take care of your health, that’s exactly why you need to do it. It’s a priority. There’s a story about a monk teaching a busy professional to meditate. The guy says he has no time. The monk says, "Then do it for 60 minutes." The lesson: prioritize yourself.

Finally, give us some books, podcasts, quotes, tools that motivate or empower.

Matt Ellis:

Honestly, the most valuable thing I’ve done is ask experienced professionals for their advice. You don’t have to know them—just humbly ask for 10 or 30 minutes. Remarkable insights come from seeking knowledge from those around you—peers, mentors, elders. Be inquisitive. It’s often overlooked how much you can learn just by asking.

Chris Wedding:

That’s a good point. Humility and asking for advice—especially from all directions—are powerful. I once asked Amory Lovins if he’d mentor me; he laughed, saying that’s more time than he gives his direct reports. But that’s the point—self-agency starts with you.

Matt Ellis:

Exactly. I asked Ray Werda, then Chairman of CBRE, to join the board. He agreed. But it’s also about listening. You have to be open to the exchange. Self-agency begins with your actions.

Chris Wedding:

Well, as they say, we have two ears and one mouth for a reason—listen more than we speak. Let’s finish with any final thoughts, requests, or challenges for our listeners.

Matt Ellis:

Check out the upcoming debate I’m doing with Chris Pike of GRESB on the topic "Plaques versus Performance"—addressing whether labels matter and if they correlate with real outcomes. It’s on January 29th. Also, I encourage everyone to stay positive about the industry’s potential. Real estate often gets a bad rap, but there are many innovative companies. The transformation happening now is exciting. Let’s join in and help accelerate it.

Chris Wedding:

And just to clarify—sustainability, ESG, green real estate—these are not leftist or woke strategies. They’re about being better fiduciaries: managing costs, capturing markets, retaining tenants. You wouldn’t have nearly $200 million in outside capital if there wasn’t a profitable opportunity.

Matt Ellis:

Right. We’ve passed the point where this is just buzz. There’s real value for capitalists, owners, and investors. The industry is moving forward—onward and upward.

Chris Wedding:

It’s been inspiring watching your growth from almost the very beginning. I look forward to seeing Measurabl become a verb.

Matt Ellis:

Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it.

Chris Wedding:

Thanks for listening. If you want more on climate tech, better habits, and deep work, subscribe to our newsletter at entrepreneursforimpact.com or connect with me on LinkedIn. Take care!