Entrepreneurs for Impact (EFI) Podcast: Transcripts
#84:
$700M for Smart Energy and Mobility Ventures — Tim Wang, Managing Partner of The Westly Group (VC)
Chris Wedding:
Tim Wang, Managing Partner of the Wesley Group and I just learned former intern, so stay tuned, to Managing Partner at the Wesley Group, a household name in cleantech, now climate tech VC, welcome to the podcast, man.
Tim Wang:
Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you taking the time and an honor to be here.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, for sure. Well, Tim, the place we like to start is the elevator pitch for what you all do. I think many listeners know what you all do as VC investors. So, let's start with the elevator pitch then we'll rise back up to talk a little more general. Then we're going to go way in the weeds on portfolio companies and investment parameters and all the rest. What's the pitch on you guys?
Tim Wang:
The really quick pitch really is we've been, I would argue, one of the OGs in climate tech investing. We started in 2007 in cleantech 1.0 and we're now on our fourth venture fund. We're still focused on digitization and the sustainability of energy, mobility, buildings, industrial technology and cybersecurity. So, we've been out there for nearly 15 years making investments from Tesla all the way to Sentinel-1 and Luminar and looking to do good work going forward.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, cool. It's fun that you mention the phrase OG in this space. I had Dave Kirkpatrick from SJF Ventures on some months ago, and that was the title I gave that podcast. He was like, “Well, I'm not sure about the OG part, but I guess I'll take it since you've already published it.” Anyway, if it weren't taken, I could use the same.
Tim Wang:
It’s fine.
Chris Wedding:
But we'll have to think of another creative title when we hit published. All right, that's awesome. I think the listeners have lots of questions about that, and cool to have household names that you will help to fund like the small company called Tesla.
Tim Wang:
Exactly.
Chris Wedding:
Let's go 30,000 feet for a second here. You have the fun job of talking to and then investing in and working with lots of CEOs in the space. Clearly, all CEOs are perfect, but let's just assume that we occasionally make mistakes, what might one or two of these mistakes be that maybe you can help course correct some folks who want to come knocking on you-all’s door?
Tim Wang:
There are probably two or three things that I think about the most when I think about CEOs. One, let's think about the fundraisings in general. This is the interaction that a lot of entrepreneurs have with us as investors. Over the past few years, I've just seen CEOs really think about optimizing for price and then your turn, frankly. Obviously, I'm on the other side of that table and so obviously, I have a lower price, but at the end of the day, the way I think about it in general is for CEOs to think about, what will work also for the long-term?
04:42
I think what I'm fearful of is a lot of entrepreneurs over the last 18 months have raised just tremendous rounds, really big price, very minimal revenue, and we're about to head into a recession, and that is not going to go well for the next round. That even though good times seem to be rolling and prices can't drop, I think that's the first thing entrepreneurs tend to get blinded with and just think, “Hey, well, if someone raised about a billion, then I should get the same price,” and that's not always the case. And so, that's one mistake I normally see.
Another one that I see time and time again is just making sure that you as an entrepreneur and a leader, you got to fill up your blind spots as well. I think either they're very product focused and they think the product will sell itself and so they don’t really invest much in sales or business development talent or vice versa. You always have to understand what your blind spots are and make sure you fill in a full team, because that's what we look at as investors. It's not just that one or two key people, but really, do you have the right team assembled to be able to execute appropriately?
Chris Wedding:
The blind spot piece is really important I feel like, and a follow-on question is, how are these leaders supposed to see their blind spots when they're blind? Do you have advice for those that are in the Wesley Group fold to uncover some of these things that are hidden?
Tim Wang:
Yeah, I think about it in two or three ways. For myself, I have to ask myself, what am I missing? What am I missing in a deal? And so, that means either I go to my teammates and say, “What am I missing? Why am I stupid?” I got to check myself. I think the second part is surrounding yourself with advisors or good friends who are willing to give you the tough advice.
I can speak from personally, which is I had this startup where it wasn't heading well. Luckily, I had a mentor who wrote my business school rec and I still talk to him to this day and he's the first person that said to me, “Tim, you've lost your money and the sooner you can come to understand it and come to grips with that, we can move forward and find you the next path.”
I needed to hear that from somebody that I trusted with everything that I got, but he had to tell me something that I didn't want to hear. He knew that I didn't want to hear that, but it ultimately is what changed my career path to where I'm sitting today, frankly. If he hadn't done that, I would have been in a very different position.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. Well, first of all, lucky to have folks like that in your life, our life. It makes me think of two things. One is this idea of a devil's advocate. I know that some people maybe have this tendency to see flaws, to see weaknesses. Of course, without calling that out as a positive thing, it's like, well, you're the Debbie Downer, you're the glass half full team member. As compared to, well, what if there was a rotating role of devil's advocate by month, by meeting, who knows, to not be the cheerleader? To be the, no, this is just not going to work for this reason, or maybe it won't work for this reason.
07:57
Then another is, through these climate CEO and investor peer groups we run at Entrepreneurs for Impact, part of that is to develop pretty deep, trusted relationships with a cohort of 11 others who can help you see some blind spots, clearly with your best interests in mind. I think that's one of the superpowers of peer groups is that kind of candor.
Tim Wang:
Agreed. I think you also have to do a lot of self-reflection, which is, we always think internally at a firm like, what's the square you don't want to land on? Even if you think about just a two-by-two matrix, it's like, this is where I want to be up and to the right. The ones where I don't want to land on is the one on the bottom left. Okay, well then what is that square and what can I do to mitigate that?
And so, if you're an entrepreneur, the last thing you want is a down round with losing money and you've been deluded. Well, how do we avoid that? That means there are different levels to think about, which you may have to settle at the end of the day to avoid that one square no one wants to land on.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, that two by two example you just gave makes me think of another term, which is anti-goals. I haven't really used that construct much, but if you do think about the two-by-two quadrant, and you're like, “Oh, well, I want to be in the top right quadrant, where do I not want to be?” is another great question to ask. Then I think where you were going was, okay, I don't want to be there, what steps do I take to not end up there? Which is different framing, but I think helpful as well.
Tim Wang:
Exactly. Yeah, and I think that helps to cover some of the blind spots because some folks will say, “Well, we'll never get a lower price. Of course, I'm always going to raise an up round.” Well, more often than not, it's the latter that happens and you have to plan and act accordingly to avoid those situations.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. Okay. We talked about some common mistakes that your partners, the CEOs, we can make. How about for yourself in the role of an investor? Can you tell us about a situation, however specific you want to get where you're like, “Damn, I shouldn't have done that. Now I'm looking backwards three, four years and here's how that changes how I make investment or asset management even decisions today,”?
Tim Wang:
Yeah, there's really two things that stick out in my mind. Going back to team, I mentioned this maybe just a little bit earlier, but team is one of the most important things that we think about. The more that I've done this business and the more investments we've made over time and obviously, this is a game of time, you don't normally know the answers to your bets until years later. Just the more reps that we've had and the more situations that I've seen, I think you have to have full belief and conviction around an entrepreneur and your team before you make an investment.
11:02
We've just made a few mistakes on that and that stems from the original team that we've invested in. That also speaks to a situation where we brought a new CEO to replace, but that wasn't great. You have to leave no stone unturned when you look at a team and that's something I've learned now and it's taken over time.
And so, whether that means not just going out to the reference checks that they provide you, or going to others just within your network, or finding another third party that knows these folks, it's just so important to get it right. Otherwise, you're going to go down a path that's not going to look good three, four, five months from now.
Chris Wedding:
On the people side, I hear what you're saying, like most of us clearly provide references that are favorable, duh, but you got to trust and verify other sources.
Tim Wang:
Correct.
Chris Wedding:
Do you all ever go so far as to have founding team members to do a DiSC or I'm not sure Myers-Briggs or whatever? There are five or 10 really great personality skills assessments out there. I think individually, they may not tell the story, but in combination, I think they probably tell a lot. Is that too formulaic or?
Tim Wang:
No, I don't think it's too formulaic. It's actually a discussion we've just had recently within our team. We've done a couple of things which are 360s when it comes to our CEO. So, that's post investment, obviously, because you don't want to just hear from the investors, we should hear from everyone at the firm. But then at the end of the day, we've also discussed, hey, does it make sense to have personality tests just to understand who they are, how they work?
A lot of what we try to find is a team that knows how to raise capital. You basically have to be really good at sales, that's how I think about it and specifically at storytelling. I think that's what a good CEO and a good leader is all about. You are a storyteller, you are the chief salesperson. I don't care what leadership role you are in, whether you are CEO of a company, whether you are the CEO of a nonprofit or a CEO with an investment bank. You are the head of sales. The quicker you understand that your job is about sales and talent management and fundraising, the better you're going to be.
And so, when we look at teams, we want to know that they're good at sales and storytelling. We want to know that they know their numbers, that they're thorough and understand where the company's going. But I think we also want folks who are at least somewhat coachable.
The way I think about it, and I come from a background of sports, I was a swimmer all throughout my life and in college, and I think it's important that I was always a coachable person. You could tell me what I did wrong and famously, my coach always said, “Look, even though you just did your best time, Tim, there was always going to be three mistakes you made that you could have done better.” And so, if that's the case, that means I can always improve and I think you got to ask yourself, “What can I do better as an entrepreneur at all times?”
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, that's an important word, coachable. It seems that's often also true that many CEOs that are expected to have the answers and looked to have the answers within their team, aren't always the most coachable.
14:18
Tim Wang:
Yeah.
Chris Wedding:
It’s not quite the right word we use when we pick members for our climate CEO peer groups here, but it's related. It’s like, well, do you have growth mindsets? Do you realize there’s still more to learn, not from me necessarily, but from peers? Are you humble enough to realize that there's still more to learn?
Tim Wang:
Yeah. To be candid, there's the other flip side of the coin, which is, folks like Elon may be not the most coachable, but he's by far one of the most talented people and entrepreneurs we have in this country. I would say he's more the exception than the rule, but there is a fine line of, obviously you want to be somewhat coachable, but at the same time you have to be focused and determined about what it is you're doing as well.
Chris Wedding:
The lesson there is if you're Elon, you're cool to not be coachable. If you're not Elon, you need to—
Tim Wang:
Yeah.
Chris Wedding:
I hear what you're saying. Okay, let's go back to Wesley Group.
Tim Wang:
Sure.
Chris Wedding:
Let's get in the weeds here. Tell us about maybe your fourth fund here. How many companies you're looking to invest in, first check, overall commitment per company, what's that look like?
Tim Wang:
You got it. So, our fund number four is $300 million. We just announced it back in January of this year and we look to have around 15 plus or minus investments. Our minimum check size is anywhere from five to $15 million with obviously additional in reserves. We're really looking at traditionally more Series A to Series B companies.
Chris Wedding:
That's helpful and as you think about that stage of company, can you talk about the various metrics or milestones? Almost like, where does product market fit need to be? Where does revenue need to be? I don't imagine there's any discussion of profitability at that point, but wouldn't that be nice? Anyway, what do some of those attributes look like for companies you're after?
Tim Wang:
For us, we're looking at probably three or four different things. Number one, we're looking for actual customer traction. So, especially for the Series A companies, these are ones where maybe they just wrapped up a few POCs or pilots and on to production or actual live contracts. You want to see that trend line before we would invest. By the Series B, you want to see some real traction or real growth, so that's point number one.
16:52
Number two, we are looking for capital efficient businesses. Ideally, we're talking about companies with 60-80% gross margins. We've learned from the early cleantech days of what not to do when it comes to capital intense businesses and that's what we're looking for.
I would say number three, when it comes to some milestones, are we seeing real customer numbers growth as well too? So, it's obviously different from Series A, Series B, but we're looking to see, are you getting re-ups from customers? Are they renewing with you? Are you landing and expanding? Those are the things we're going to take a look at.
Then lastly, it's going to be your unit economics. We'll focus especially on the Series B. What are your customer acquisition costs? What are your lifetime values? These are the things that we expect founders and founding teams to have full grasp of and really show us a path towards, how are you going to improve those economics?
Chris Wedding:
That makes sense. Let me go to this question of how much capital is required, how capital intensive is the business. I think many listeners know the story of cleantech 1.0 and how those with high CapEx fared. Clearly, there's a need for high CapEx companies to succeed for us to solve climate change. What advice would you give to startups that do have high CapEx business models? They're not going to find the right home with you guys, but that's fine. There are other investors, maybe it’s their thesis. Where do you direct those folks?
Tim Wang:
Sure. I mean, so two points. One is, as much as we say capital efficient, the first name I mentioned, which was Tesla, is quite capital intensive. So, it doesn't mean, we won't ever touch those types of companies. I just think we have a very high bar for, what is unique IP in the business?
We did invest out of our fund number three, a company called Luminar, which is a LiDAR sensor company also producing, manufacturing hardware devices. And so, of course that is what some would say capital intense, but they had a tremendous amount of IP. They are, we think, the best sensor in the market today and they've essentially won because they have the largest market share of all the public LiDAR companies out there in the market.
So, as much as we say, we want to be focused on 60-80% first margin businesses, I think we are always looking for those companies that have very strong IP, great technical foundation and have a clear leader in the marketplace. So, that's point number one.
I think point number two is trying to be as efficient as you can with your businesses. If you are capital intense, there are new ways that are available to founders that weren't around even 10, 15 years ago. Whether it's project financing, whether it's certain debt options and vehicles, I think you just have to get creative in terms of minimizing your cash burn and minimizing dilution.
I am now speaking from the point of view of a founder. You want to be sensitive to that as much as possible. And so, I think you just have to be smart about when and where you raised, how you build your team, and really trying to be smart about preserving every ounce of ownership that you've got.
20:10
Chris Wedding:
Maybe to summarize on point number one, maybe still give you a phone call if they got a lot of IPs in some path to considerable market share. Then the other would be, how soon can you get capital formation off balance sheet into some sort of project? Maybe easier to underwrite as long as the offtake or the purchaser of whatever you're producing can be there and you don't give up your whole company, funneling all those big dollars through the corporate. Is that--?
Tim Wang:
Correct.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. Okay. Let me ask you another question on the underwriting process. Some companies have one founder, some companies have co-founders. We know that co-founders don't always work out long-term. We also know that with solo founders, there can be an actual or perceived concentration risk, if you will. Maybe just take them in turn, well, do you invest in solo founders and/or how do you manage that risk if you deem it to be a considerable risk?
Tim Wang:
The short answer is yes, we do invest in sole founders. We have done that in the past and we'll continue to do so. I probably have a preference personally for co-founding teams. I think it's important to have someone to check your work and you need someone who can take a look at you in the face and say, “Hey, this is not right or we got to do it this way.” You need a peer sometimes and if that is lacking, if it is a sole founder, I think it's extremely important that he or she have someone, one or two people that are very, very close co-pilots.
So, maybe you don't call them a co-founder, but in the case of one that I can think of, he probably has a right-hand person who I almost effectively look as a co-founder, even though they're not. I just think you need that trusted partner that you can talk about all things at all times, because otherwise it's very lonely at the top. I don’t think that helps anyone at the end of the day. I'm always happy to be that trusted partner, so to speak, but admittedly, I'm also coming at it from a different position. I'm an investor and a shareholder and a board member and maybe that's different from hearing from your peer, right?
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. I mean, when I sat on the investor side in private equity, I didn't expect the recipients of our capital to be totally transparent. I mean, pretty transparent, give us the information we need, but don't scare us if you don't have to. Save some of those wildfires to yourself, please.
Tim Wang:
Exactly. So, that's why it goes back to that team. Even if you don't have co-founders, if it's a COO that you look effectively as a co-founder or whomever it is, you just need that trusted one, two partners along with the sole founder.
Chris Wedding:
Sure. Can you give us examples of maybe, let's call it plus or minus three, portfolio companies, what they do, give them a little love and then maybe why you all chose to invest?
23:29
Tim Wang:
I'll probably think of three of them. Sure, not a problem. One is, the first investment at our newest fund and fund called Circular. This is a company that provides supply chain traceability and really helps with materials, let's say to give you an example from the mines in the Congo all the way to the vehicle in a Volvo. They provide all the supply chain traceability around Scope 1, 2, potentially even Scope 3 emissions, also around other factors of ESG.
For us, I think one of the reasons why we invested is we know this is a big space and it's only going to grow bigger. It’s actually based in London. We know the traction is happening in Europe faster than they are in the US. This is going back from the beginning of 2021. And so, I think that's a clear winner for us in a lot of ways and that's why it was our first investment out of fund number four.
Chris Wedding:
Got it.
Tim Wang:
Is that helpful?
Chris Wedding:
No, it is. It's interesting. I don't guess I realized this, you are not limited to US based companies.
Tim Wang:
Correct. Yeah. About 80% of our investments will be in North America, plus or minus 20% will be abroad. So yeah, that includes Asia, Europe, anywhere in the world, wherever we can find the best people and the best deals.
Chris Wedding:
Okay. Just sticking on that for a second, are there any 20,000-foot level comments on why an investor may choose to invest in a startup overseas versus here all else held equal, which of course is never true, but all else equal? I mean, I have some thoughts, but why might you all choose to invest overseas versus here?
Tim Wang:
It just depends. Sometimes it's where the customers are, it's where the traction's being made, or it's close to proximity of something around the customer base. That's probably what I think about most. You could say talent. I think talent still continues to be strongest mainly in the Bay Area for now, but just the last few years alone has shown us that there's talent everywhere. Talent is also continuously moving. And so, we have to keep on scouring the entire planet for good deals.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, and I'll just make a joke, but also serious. Even talent in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina.
Tim Wang:
Yeah, exactly.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, that's true. There's talent everywhere and talent's moving in the last two years for sure. A direction I thought you might go or certainly could be true from even a non-Westley Group perspective could be, well, gosh, investors might be able to find a more sane valuation if they're investing in other places.
26:23
Tim Wang:
I thought about saying that. I think we as a firm can just continue to stay disciplined within our price. I think you've seen some pretty healthy valuations over the last 12-18 months. You're right. When you go abroad, you can do that, but at the end of the day, I think our goal is to say, “Hey, this company, regardless of where you get the current price, can you underwrite it to where you get a strong return and a venture-style return?”
It doesn't matter from my perspective where you are. If you can do that, then you should do the deal, but you're right. In Europe, it's a little bit less, it's a little bit more practical, whatever you want to call it over there, but they are doing very well in Europe.
Companies are raising a lot of capital. There's a lot of appetite and it's competitive. It used to be only the venture funds in North America who would go invest out in Europe, but you've got some homegrown talent and venture investors out there, it's only going to get more competitive. So, it doesn't mean that prices will be this way forever.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. I would say, for folks listening, the newsletter I put out yesterday through Substack, I was commenting on, I want to say, was it Kiko? K-I-K-O Ventures that just raised -- Just for fun here, this is my podcast. Let's just take a moment to Google that newsletter here. It's helpful because for folks who may be EU-based, sources for more capital. Yeah, so $450 million for this new firm coming out of the IP group of FTSE 250 listed company.
Tim Wang:
There you go.
Chris Wedding:
In this TechCrunch article, they list out Astanor, World Fund, 2150, Norrsken, Blue Horizon, Emerald Technology, and Pale Blue Dot, other EU focus groups alongside this group, Kiko Ventures. Anyway, good times. Yeah, opportunity in all places.
Tim Wang:
The amount of funds and capital that's being raised to tackle the existential problems that we face around climate are only growing. You're going to see that both in the public markets and in the private markets. And so, it's on us to make sure we continue to find the right deals, but you're going to see more capital raised, not just in the US, in Europe, you're seeing more in Asia. I mean, they're all over the place. This is a good problem to have, which is I think we're trying to fight this and we do need to fight it one way with capital.
Chris Wedding:
For sure. Okay. I stopped you. You listed one company. Let's get two more example portfolio companies and then we'll switch from the Westley Group to the person, Tim Wang.
Tim Wang:
Yeah, sure. So, another company is actually a company called Optimal Dynamics, which was our first investment that was done completely remote in April of 2020. This is a company where we didn't meet the management team until after we had invested our dollars, which was a wild experience for us as a firm, but it was a seed round. It was a company that was focused on middle mile optimization, which is really long-haul trucking optimization.
29:32
Frankly, we were going down a path of looking at last mile optimization around the Amazon delivery truck and routing, but really, there is such an interface. The math is telling someone it will be relatively easy. I'm an international relations maker, what do I know about math? But this company, Optimal, was really tackling a problem that no one had done in the past.
If you think about a lot of the mobility questions that we have, the issues around sustainability and climate and impact, if you can solve really long-haul trucking issues, which is where emissions come from, you have really started solving a lot of the bigger problems that we're facing.
And so, we invested in the seed round. It was still relatively early. Bessemer led the Series A and actually we just announced just two months ago, we led, came in at the Series B, we just saw so much in the company. There is a lot of good potential here in the next few years that we wanted to put more capital and get [inaudible – 00:30:25] who's the CEO. We’re just excited about the problems they're tackling, how we can actually grow to, not just middle mile trucking, but really the entire supply chains.
I think thematically, what's been uncovered over the last two years due to COVID is how unconnected and not digitized the supply chain and industrial markets are. This is something I think we're only going to see increase over the next decade, which is you got to connect infrastructure, a lot of industrial technologies, and we're here to help fund those companies that are trying to do that.
Chris Wedding:
If I could maybe draw a lesson for listeners, looking where others are not, whether it's for problems to solve, that's really, I guess what I'm focused on here. Sometimes the less obvious or dare I say, less sexy solutions and/or problems, can be the greatest, that's along the lines of Blue Ocean Strategy. I love the book, whatever, 10 or 12 years ago. All right, cool. That's a good example. Not many folks thinking about it, which can often mean more opportunity to grab market share. Perfect. How about a third of your favorite children here, Tim?
Tim Wang:
Wow, you can't really ask that question.
Chris Wedding:
I know. They're all favorites, of course. Yeah.
Tim Wang:
They're all favorites, of course. Maybe I'll just say two really quick. One is actually going to be Luminar. This is the company I mentioned earlier. It's a LiDAR company and look, it took me a while to get that through and over the line here at our firm because it was such a competitive space. Is this the right company? Is this the right team? But we were able to really answer all those questions with a yes. We've just been extremely excited about the strides they've had over the last few years, going from just a demonstration back in 2017, when we first met them, to essentially being in production in vehicles by the end of this year.
32:20
For us, the questions were always around, hey, can you do a good demo? That's not the right question to ask. It's, can you be auto grade production ready in a vehicle? And that's where a lot of companies had not really focused their time on. And so, for us, that was the right question to ask and they were the ones who said, “We could do it,” and they proved that they could. So, that's been exciting for us.
The last one I want to mention, going to the blind spot or not blind spot, but really more about where people aren't looking, people ask us, “Why are you looking at cybersecurity as part of your thesis?” It may not make sense, but if you think about where the world is going, we're connecting everything. So, not just your phone, but every camera that you got in your home, thinking about not just your home, but your car. Your car is fully connected and you got to think about the grid. We're having a distributed energy platform and not one that's centralized and everything's connected.
In order to usher in and ensure that we have a safe transition of energy, we need to have these secure ties. And so, what that means at the end of the day is we look at both IT and OT cybersecurity, and we've got two investments that help in that front. So, we had one in Sentinel-1, which is an endpoint software security company. People say “Endpoint, who cares?” Well, that's not just your laptop and your phone, that's your IoT device, that's around your smart home devices, that's also partly in your vehicle, and that needs to be secured. We're going to have a fully electric fleet of vehicles out there in the world.
The other point that we made is a company called Network Perception, and they help on the OT cybersecurity side for energy utilities. We need to make sure we avoid things like the colonial pipeline incident we had just last year. This is why we're looking at these areas because it's important to have solar, wind, biofuels and we understand that, but if they're not secure, we could be set back years if not decades if we don't do this right.
Chris Wedding:
Well, I'm glad you answered that question because I was thinking about it. When you first mentioned your buckets, I was like, “Does that belong?” I was like, “Well, yes it does and here's why.” Cool. Let's switch here for the last few minutes from the firm to the person here.
If you, Tim, could talk to your younger self, what might be a tip or two to be, pick your adjective here, faster, more effective, happier, et cetera?
Tim Wang:
I would say there's two things. I wrote this down a little bit earlier. One is, I should have taken computer science classes. I should have learned some of that. Not to have been majoring in computer science, I'll leave that to my wife. She's a computer science from MIT, so she's the smart one. I should have taken more of that, been exposed to that part of the world.
Then generally there's another class that took in business school, which was much later in my career in mindfulness. A lot of people probably think that's a little touchy, feely and a little too soft, but it really changed a lot of the ways that I approach tough situations, especially in my day-to-day job. I think having learned those skills earlier could have also been extremely helpful for myself.
Chris Wedding:
Well, I'm glad you mentioned the second one. I mean, the first one, too. As I reflect back, I was an environmental science major and biology and chemistry minors. I'm like, “Super creative, Wedding, how about you take some other non-science minors to become more versatile?” Anyway, hindsight and all that jazz.
35:52
Tim Wang:
Exactly.
Chris Wedding:
The mindfulness, listeners are probably thinking I'm beating a dead horse here, but I think for me, it's going on 25 years of practicing, often failing, having a regular meditation practice, but you're right. If I'm doing it consistently, which would mean usually in the mornings and/or in the evenings, my days are smoother, my thinking, clearer, my blood pressure lower, my speed of talking slower, all these things, quite positive. Cool.
That relates to the next question, which is, are there other habits, Tim, that keep you healthy, sane and focused in your work? Well, in your work and beyond really.
Tim Wang:
Yeah, 100%. I am probably a creature of habit to some extent. I'd like to keep a routine. That really was rooted in me probably from a very young age when I was a swimmer, so I can [crosstalk – 00:36:46]. You just have a routine before you have your race record. At the starting blocks, you got to do the same thing every time.
I get up quite early in the morning. I think it's something that's remained since my swimming days of waking up at 4:00 a.m. but I still get up early, try to work out in the morning, try to get my head right. That has become a form of meditation for me, frankly, whether it's in the pool or doing something at the gym.
I have the same morning routine, when I drink coffee and have a little bar in the morning. It's a way to get you set up and teed up for the day, even little things like making your bed. When I get that done in the morning, make your bed, then everything else is gravy at the end of the day. Have that start.
I read a bunch in the morning. That's really where I spend my morning, getting a few news podcasts in, getting my reading and understanding what's happening. I think part of our focus and our jobs really are understanding where things are happening, not just in climate, what's happening in politics and government because that's really affecting our space, but understanding global markets in general. These are all the things I have to read. I have basically 20 emails. You get your weekly newsletter, the daily ones that
I make sure that I read and understand what's going on.
Chris Wedding:
I'm going to finish my work day and I'm going to go tell my kids, “See, Tim said that you need to make your damn bed in the morning.” I have one good bed maker, our daughter, who, God bless her, she's just like me and I just love that part of her. Anyway, the boys, they're more their own individuals. Anyway, we digress. I love the dedication to reading and learning in the morning before things get too crazy.
On that topic, if you had to pick two or three sources, podcasts or newsletters, books, whatever, where might you direct folks for either a read or a recurring source of info?
Tim Wang:
Well, there's a fun podcast I like to listen to. It's called Sporkful and it's about food, as you can imagine, the spork wording there. What I love about it is, first of all, I tend to cook a lot, I’m the cook at home. I also find that as a form of meditation. I jokingly tell folks, if I don't focus and cut an onion correctly, I'll cut one of my digits off. That's the last thing I need, so I can't think about the call I just had with an entrepreneur. I got to really focus on the task at hand. So, that's been helpful. But Sporkful, what I love about it is, it's a podcast that says, “We obsess about food to learn more about people.”
39:22
We’re in the people game, fundamentally, that's my job and I think every time you hear one of these things that may be about something completely non-work related, but you learn about somebody else, that gets me to think about, well, asking more and learning about the entrepreneur that we're talking to. On my way home, that's probably a podcast that I listen to, it's a ton of fun, and I get some cooking recipes in between, but it's the stories about people that I'm most interested in.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. I like that you've given a non-work suggestion there. Clearly, we are more than our titles and our ventures we're building and so forth or investing in, but sometimes we forget that.
Tim Wang:
Yeah.
Tim Wang:
It's a good reminder. Let me close with a call to action or who do you want to hear from kind of thing as the final bit here, Tim?
Tim Wang:
Yeah, sure. For myself and our firm, I think just to reiterate, our fund, it's up and running. We are excited for tackling the problems that are ahead of us and if you're focusing on the areas that we look at, we're always more than happy to take. I think one of the unique things about our firm, and I don't know if we got to really touch on this, is that we actually have some strategic LPs in our fund. One of the reasons why we believe we win deals is not because we're smarter or we know how to do product better, or we have the most money because we don't. It's really because we want to be true partner with the entrepreneurs that we work with.
What that means is we help make customer and business introductions, probably more than others around the table. That's why we do this. It's because an electric vehicle company or a battery company or some autonomous company says, “Hey, Tim, Audi is one of your investors. I want to work with Audi.” I say, “Sure. Well, we can help with that introduction.” Or, “I'm doing something grid related. Can I talk to Duke Energy or American Electric Power?” I say, “Yes, they're one of our investors, we can definitely help with that.”
And so, have your listeners take a look at our website and see who our partners are. And if you think one of them should be a customer or a distribution partner, give us a ring anytime. Our emails and everything else is on our website. We want to be able to help you be successful.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, I like that. That's good advice. Clearly, it's one thing that makes you all unique. It's also a great reminder for entrepreneurs as they look for capital, not all money is the same color of green. You got to ask, well, what else can you do for me besides the capital? Right.
41:53
Tim Wang:
Exactly.
Chris Wedding:
You and others have been operators in the past, which helps, but this comment of strategic LPs they can be customers is also a nice bonus. A nice potentially game changing to have a household name as customer kind of bonus as well. Okay. Cool. Tim, this is great. A lot of fun comments from the VC perspective. Look, we're excited about you-all’s portfolio companies and a lot of dry powder [crosstalk – 00:42:25].
Chris Wedding:
Thank you, Chris. I really appreciate it.
Chris Wedding:
All right, talk soon.
Tim Wang:
All right, take care.
Chris Wedding:
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